Welcome to our latest Metis interview.
This time with Federal Minister of Defence,
Ms Annegret Kramp-Karrenbauer.
Today we will be talking about
climate change and security policy.
Metis Interview No. 3: “Climate change as a strategic challenge”
The people involved in the recording of this interview
have all been tested negative for SARS-CoV-2.
We are standing here
in front of the charging station at the Federal Ministry of Defence.
My first question to you, Ms Kramp-Karrenbauer:
Why is there a charging station here at the Ministry?
Well for one thing, with our official seats in Berlin
and Bonn, we have committed to becoming climate neutral by 2023
and this charging station is a step towards this goal.
And of course because many of our colleagues
come to work by e-bike, by car.
But we also have a number of hybrid and electric cars
in our vehicle fleet.
If you don’t mind, I’d like to discuss
the topic of security and climate policy.
We know that climate change is real and that our climate
is not just changing, but changing for the worse.
Would you say that
this climate change we’re experiencing is just aggravating
already existing risks or does it also
have the potential to create entirely new security policy risks?
I think it does both.
There’s no doubt it’s aggravating existing conflicts,
but we know that if we
fail to stop climate change in time,
it’s going to have an immediate impact on human habitats.
The situation in the Sahel region shows that these conflicts are rooted
in the issue of available land, water rights and access to water.
And of course these problems will only get worse in future.
In this sense, climate change impacts security policy too.
Since you mentioned the Sahel region,
where the Bundeswehr is deployed in Mali:
Is climate change already affecting
mission planning in the Bundeswehr? And if so, how?
Yes it is. Firstly, in terms of how we prepare our men and women
for extreme weather conditions, for example.
And, secondly, in terms of how
our materiel and equipment has to be designed
so that
we can do our job in these regions even in extreme heat, for example.
And then there’s the question
of how mobile, how self-sufficient we are when we go on deployment.
It definitely makes a difference
whether I have to take diesel and generators with me, for example,
or whether I can ensure that I’m
more self-sufficient and independent
by using renewable energies and storage units.
That’s something we’re trying to do in our depot in Gao, for example.
We’ve just been talking very specifically about the Bundeswehr.
The Federal Republic of Germany
takes a whole-of-government approach,
especially when we’re involved
in crisis areas abroad.
And so, of course, does the Bundeswehr.
To what extent does climate change play a role
in preparing and developing a whole-of-government operation
that leads to an actual deployment?
Generally, the environment and environmental standards
certainly play a role because the rules we have here in Germany
also apply on operations abroad, for example in our camps.
Of course things are coordinated among the ministries, but
I wish we would focus more on climate change
as a strategic challenge,
especially when it comes to these operations.
We have several government committees and cabinet committees
where the members work together on
various topics such as digitalisation.
And from my point of view,
we could be doing the same with climate change too.
I’d like to come back to the Bundeswehr again,
if you don’t mind, but this time in more detail.
What is the Bundeswehr doing – at home and abroad –
to reduce CO₂ emissions, to become climate-friendlier?
The aim is to reduce our ecological footprint
as much as possible.
Since 1990, we’ve been keeping track of how much we have been reducing
greenhouse emissions in our facilities,
and since 2005, we’ve been doing this in a very structured way.
The figures from 2005 to 2019
show a reduction of almost 50%.
We’ve also
considerably increased the share of
renewable energies in areas like our vehicle fleet,
where the focus is on mobility.
And we are, of course, required to continue
our work in this area to achieve the goals of
the EU’s Green Deal, for example.
It’s not just about our facilities and our vehicle fleet in Germany
but also about where we’re deployed,
how we set up our depot, and how self-sufficient we are,
for example with renewable energies.
In this sense, it is also something
the Federal Office of Infrastructure and Services deals with.
Ms Kramp-Karrenbauer, how likely would you say it is that,
in the next few years or decades,
the Bundeswehr will increasingly have to
provide administrative assistance in Germany because of extreme climate-induced events
such as wildfires, floods,
and extreme weather conditions?
We’ve been involved in such operations in the past:
the Oder river floods and the snow disaster in Bavaria, for example.
And if, as predicted, climate change
can be expected to cause these extreme weather conditions
to become more frequent and to put
civilian structures under pressure, then administrative assistance will be needed.
And then the Bundeswehr will step in
and will probably have to be deployed more often.
You say that civilian structures are likely to come under pressure.
What do you think
will have to be done differently, improved or intensified
in terms of civilian-military cooperation?
Or is the system as it is good enough
to meet these challenges too?
This pandemic has shown that absolutely everyone – at every level and in
every role – is trying to work together as hard and as efficiently as possible
in order to protect the people.
But it’s also clear that we are not ideally prepared
for a pandemic situation like this.
This goes for the procurement of material and protective equipment
and for the way we work together.
A lot has been cleared up during the last few months – about how the governments
of the federal states cooperate with
the regional territorial commands, for example.
But I still wish, for instance,
that a civil defence and disaster control
authority
had a greater role to play.
They could make strategic decisions
and we could practice cooperation again.
I think we really need to learn from the pandemic about
where we need to do better than we have so far.
I have one last question if you don’t mind:
The European Union’s Green Deal –
what exactly will it mean for the European armed forces in future?
The Green Deal sets a very ambitious goal –
to reduce greenhouse gas
emissions by 55%.
Everybody – yes, every member state – has to contribute.
And this of course
includes all organisations,
including our national armed forces.
But this is why the issue has also landed on the European agenda,
and on the agenda of joint
European defence and security policy.
It’s also an issue within NATO,
where we’re talking about this question.
It all shows that we must see our handling of the climate and climate change
as a task that we need to fulfil in a very practical way.
But it’s also a future-oriented
strategic challenge,
and this is why
I would like us to really see climate as a strategic challenge
rather than look at its individual components.
Ms Kramp-Karrenbauer, thank you very much for talking with me today.
You’re welcome.